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One, two or more of a kind racing

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Race Management
Forum Discription: For race officers and competiors to discuss the topic
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2569
Printed Date: 30 Sep 22 at 1:35pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: One, two or more of a kind racing
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Subject: One, two or more of a kind racing
Date Posted: 04 Jan 07 at 11:21pm

Does this still exist anywhere?

In times gone by, around this time of year we used to have events to which class associations were invited to send one or more representatives for a batttle of the classes.

However cold and unpleasant the sailing was for the reps, the rest of us were treated to some excellent entertainment, meeting-up and drinking opportunities. We could witness frantically planing Lasers being gobbled up on the reach by 18 Foot Skiffs, and see if the latest incarnation of the Int 14, with still more trapezes, could yet beat a Fireball  (I'm going back a bit there).

Perhaps first and best known of these was the Burnham Icicle, but this seems to have been demoted to mere class racing for MPS's . Then there was the Draycote Silver Salvers, which featured several of each kind and gave a better, averaged comparison of the classes. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, these one-or-more-of-a-kind events seem no longer to take place?

Sure, we still have the Bloody Mary and the Grafham GP, but the class representation at these is patchy, with loads of reps from some classes and few or none of others. We also have the Boat Show pursuit race, but the tower-block-surrounded swimming pool in which that's held precludes its being taken seriously .

So what happened to the 'x'-of-a-kind races, and why is nobody running them today? Maybe they required too much organisation - invitations to be sent out etc., but surely that is easier now everyone has e-mail? Personally, I'd like the RYA to drip a little of its resources into something like this for the benefit of the masses (and, after all, they have the contacts etc. already) rather than spending its last drop on the elite...

 




Replies:
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 10:23am
Isn't this race going on at the London Boat Show on Sunday 14th?

Will try and find more info. I think it is organised by Hayling Island.


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Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 10:25am
It is on there,

Click here for http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/2007botcNOR.pdf - NOR

Racing starts at 12.00 on the day, anyone know of sailors taking part?


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Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 11:43am
I know of at least one buzz taking part

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Josh Preater

http://www.bu22.co.uk">BUZZING IS FUN



Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 12:42pm
Two Hornets will be there.


Posted By: tornado435
Date Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 1:45pm

did it last year on my hurricane, Once was enough for me. I know Viki and Mike Coulson are taking their Hurricane again this year. I don't think there will be any tornado's this year, the Piggotts did it last year but it's a lot of work rigging and derigging for the one race.

The wind shifts and changes in strength are mental. Twin wiring on a beat directly at a much smaller monohull  beating in the opposite direction was mental, not certain when the wind was going to switch or die.



Posted By: Hobbo
Date Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 1:56pm
I am crewing one of the Hornets - should be good, free entry to the baot show :)

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Contender GBR 362
Osprey 1318 - IVplay
SSC


Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by tornado435

The wind shifts and changes in strength are mental. Twin wiring on a beat directly at a much smaller monohull  beating in the opposite direction was mental, not certain when the wind was going to switch or die.

Hence my comment about the tower-block-surrounded swimming pool.

But unfortunately it appears there are no other such races any more that might provide a better venue for a battle of the classes? Pity.

 



Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 10:14pm
What about the endeavour trophy, isn't that a bit of a battle of the classes?

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Josh Preater

http://www.bu22.co.uk">BUZZING IS FUN



Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 05 Jan 07 at 11:09pm

Originally posted by MRJP BUZZ 585

What about the endeavour trophy, isn't that a bit of a battle of the classes?

Not much technical interest to me racing one human being against another in the same boats, though it's interesting to compare the levels of talent in the different classes, but that's another matter.

No, it's the boat designs I want to see competing!



Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 06 Jan 07 at 7:43am
Scottish Champion of Champions


Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 06 Jan 07 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Perhaps first and best known of these was the Burnham Icicle, but this seems to have been demoted to mere class racing for MPS's 

We resurected a forgotten trophy and raised 500 for charity in the process and included the local kids in the process... I don't think you should be having a pop at us for that ...

The invitiation event had 300 spectators in the club house ...

http://www.mustoskiff.com/reports-and-news/2006/burnham-icicle.htm - http://www.mustoskiff.com/reports-and-news/2006/burnham-icic le.htm

If you want to get an event going then do it dont sl*g off others for running good events.

Rick



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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 06 Jan 07 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

[QUOTE=Medway Maniac]

If you want to get an event going then do it dont sl*g off others for running good events.

Rick

So you can't tell when someone's being cantankerous for the fun of it

Or is that what you're being now?



Posted By: iansmithofotley
Date Posted: 06 Jan 07 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by MRJP BUZZ 585

What about the endeavour trophy, isn't that a bit of a battle of the classes?

Not much technical interest to me racing one human being against another in the same boats, though it's interesting to compare the levels of talent in the different classes, but that's another matter.

No, it's the boat designs I want to see competing!

Hi Tony,

In my experience, most people prefer 'class racing' to 'handicap racing' or 'pursuit racing'.

No doubt someone could organise an 'Endeavour' (Champion of Champions) type event but instead of using boats of the same class, they could all sail the same class of boat in which they won their respective championships.  Would you be satisfied then?  What would it prove?

As we all know, and particularly these days with all the assymetric classes, apart from helm/crew skills, much would depend on the venue, the course and the wind strength.  Would you prefer a windward/leeward type course, a round the cans type course, several races over a mixture of courses, on the sea or inland? Whatever format or venue you choose, I would respectfully suggest that the outcome of the results would still be very much decided on the wind conditions and the chosen courses at the time.  The Bloody Mary pursuit race, for example, is usually decided by the wind conditions and the class of boat selected to be sailed on the day, apart from the abilities of the helm/crew.

At least with the present Endeavour format, all of the boats are the same and all crews have an equal chance in the conditions on the day, albeit I accept that in recent years the top crews have usually had alot of experience, at a high level, of sailing assymetric boats such as the RS 400 and many of the skills are immediately transferable to the Topper Xenon. I could go on, and ramble further, about crew weights, Portsmouth Yardsticks in certain conditions, results based on 'average lap times', etc., but I think that I have already made my point.

Ian  (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)



Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 06 Jan 07 at 11:26pm

I accept it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I'd prefer to watch the Bloody Mary than the Endeavour Trophy. I guess becasue I'm more interested in boats than tactics or techniques.

And you're right that the outcome is hugely affected by the course and the weather, but I still find it fascinating to see how the cookie crumbles, as today at the Bloody Mary.

One thing that was clear there was that you didn't want too many 'team mates' - being Merlin no. 25 meant you were well and truly stuffed before the first mark (except you might act as a blocker agaisnt later starters), whereas being one of a pair meant you got more chance to sail your own race; hence the desirability of limiting to two or three entries per class.

Anyway, on to the Boat Show 'battle in the turbulence' on 14th... Best of luck to all competitors, you'll need it - esp. those with trapezes and gennakers!



Posted By: Xpletive
Date Posted: 09 Jan 07 at 10:49pm
What's the odds on a Buzz to win?


Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 10 Jan 07 at 9:53am
Depends on what they are up against, how many classes are participating?


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Josh Preater

http://www.bu22.co.uk">BUZZING IS FUN



Posted By: tornado435
Date Posted: 10 Jan 07 at 10:13am

Based on the last few years, the winner will be a small single handed monohull. as soon as you get trapezes and kites it all gets a bit slow.

need to be able to change from upwind mode to downwind mode quickly without changing direction. The wind shifts are that big. also the abililty to drift for 100 yards without any wind will be a bonus.

The centre part of the course seemed like it had a swirling vortex with the wind rotating round and round then dying totally. 



Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 10 Jan 07 at 2:16pm

When I was at Excel at the weekend, there didn't seem anywhere large enough to host a sailing race now all the Sunseekers and HMS boats are in place.

You won't be able to see a lot unless you are invited aboard the Sunseeker 37!!



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Posted By: tornado435
Date Posted: 10 Jan 07 at 2:58pm

I am sailing there on Friday. Match racing Beneteau's I think. It's a work thing, can't think that it is goin to be the best sailing of my life



Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 14 Jan 07 at 4:56pm

Well, the battle of the turbulence is over.

Have to say I felt really sorry for the guy in the MPS - I thought he'd lost the will to right it at one point...

Others were flying though (at times), especially the Fireball, who seemed to chew up the earlier starters in no time. That said, I must admit I lost track of things once the laps started to pile up.

Nonetheless, the conditions were about as good as they'll ever get, with a moderate wind nicely aligned with the long side of the 'swimming pool'. Was still glad to be only spectating though!

Right format, wrong location, but if people are happy to do it, why not? Any publicity (for dinghy racing) is good publicity, I suppose (or does Mickey Mouse racing just make us look ridiculous to outsiders...? Discuss).

 



Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 14 Jan 07 at 7:16pm
More to the point, are they going to televise the race ?

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49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country


Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 15 Jan 07 at 12:20am

Interesting that 15 of the 27 classes that competed in 2006 did not return this year. Pity, as the conditions, while not wonderful, were not as bad this year.

It did look a bit crowded at times though, so two-of-a-kind might have been too many if they'd all turned up.

 



Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 15 Jan 07 at 1:06pm
Who won?

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Javelin 558
Contender 2574


Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 15 Jan 07 at 1:17pm

Fireball - just

report is on the front page at..... http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=24584 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=24584

 



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When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss

Crew on 505 8780



Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 15 Jan 07 at 1:34pm
Magnus Smith's article is very well written, IMO. Entertaining, informative, just the right tone

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http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC



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