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Lost Nuts!!!

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Repair & maintenance
Forum Discription: Questions & tips on the subject
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1667
Printed Date: 23 May 22 at 6:51pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Lost Nuts!!!
Posted By: les5269
Subject: Lost Nuts!!!
Date Posted: 19 Apr 06 at 9:49pm

Hi guys

We managed to pull the wing off our 49er the other w/end.When we went unscrew the fittings to replace them,the nuts that were supposed to be fixed inside the hull FELL OFF!

Has anyone got any ideas on what we can use instead to hold the fittings on  (not withstanding they have to hold our weight and the weight of the wing )

I don't want to start putting holes in the deck if I can avoid it.So any help would be apprecaited

Thanks

BTW I have e-mailed Ovington but have had a deathly silence from them.I'm assuming they don't know what to do either!



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49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country



Replies:
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 19 Apr 06 at 10:04pm
If im reading what your saying right I dont think you have much of an option other than cutting hatches in the deck...

Id also like to take this opertunity to mention something scalding about wonderfull smoddy engineering and how it would be so much better in a cherub.



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Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 19 Apr 06 at 10:18pm

This is what happens when you buy your boats from Kmart

(only joking!!!!)



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Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry


Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 19 Apr 06 at 10:27pm

Better than Airfix

(only joking)



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Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ -
Helensburgh S.C
http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine



Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 19 Apr 06 at 10:34pm
Touché

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Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 19 Apr 06 at 10:49pm

Les,

I was wondering if you'd ask this.

And for the record I was about 200 yards behind them (coming to lap them of course) and thought, what the feck are they doing swimming today.....

Opps....

 

But seriously, could you epoxy the fittings down ?  or is it a 100% must be bolted ?  Otherwise I think it's as we discussed on Sunday week with cutting hole(s) in and sliding a plate in behind with the nuts welded to it and then re-building the deck area etc.

Bit of a bugga really...



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 19 Apr 06 at 11:11pm
That's what I was thinking too, epoxy the wing to the deck and put self-tappers through where the bolt screws were. Can't guarantee it will work though.

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Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ -
Helensburgh S.C
http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine



Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 7:09am

thanks for the help guys !

Can' t say I'm best pleased with the build quality here either,a plate bonded inside the laminate of the hull would never fall off ......but I'm just a humble engineer



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49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country


Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 1:01pm
I will ask someone from ovis in the next couple of days if you can hang on.

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I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 2:37pm

Les,

Is the underside of the hull (on the wet side in normal sailing conds) below where the tracks attach load bearing ?

If not it might be best to go in from underneath (yes still a PITA) and stick a plate and nuts to the inside of the topside of the hull where the nuts came unstuck from and then just sort out the repair to the hull (that just keeps water out).

I think you said there is a chuck of foam in the gap which may scupper this (or make it even more of a PITA).

 



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 4:35pm
I would say if Ovington's hasnt given you a reply yet, it might be worth waiting till you get one, or even ring them up. At least then you know what they think you should do.


Posted By: phantom871
Date Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 6:10pm

Get angry    they may offer a repair!   did you get it through an agent?

Al



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If its bent pull harder


Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 9:19pm
Don't know the layout of a 49er but if you have a hatch somewhere on the boat. You need two holes where your fitting needs to bolt on. try and feed some wire (old halyard) down the hole and wiggle it back to the hatch. repeat with another piece of wire and pull through some string. You now have wire and string. Attach plate with tapped holes to string with knot (that will emerge from hole ie bowline)and pass wire through other hole in plate. Pull string until plate located by holes. Remove wire carefully and bolt up that hole. cut / remove string and bolt the other one.

Only works if there is an unclutteredish route back to grabing position of a hatch (but don't forget you can use bendy grabber things).

Difficult to explain but hopefully you get the drift.

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Garry

Lark 2252, Contender 298

www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk


Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 9:32pm

Thanks Garry  but unfortunately there are no holes at all in the deck of a 49er!

Was hoping someone may have used a nutsert sort of thing they could recommend that would mean just making the screw hole slightly bigger



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49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country


Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 9:42pm

Idea from left field....

Can you get some strong expanding rawl plug things. Not sure what the propper name is. Do you know what I mean?

Probably something in the Screw-fix catalogue.



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Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry


Posted By: Granite
Date Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 9:57pm
You could drill the hole out large enough to get a new nut back inside the hull then put the bolt with nut on through the large hole and fill with epoxy filler.  so that the nut is surrounded and the hole filled

You will need to work out a way of holding the bolt in position while the epoxy goes off. Spraying the bolt with silicone spray will help it to release.
If it was a high load bolt then you might want to include a washer and put a couple of layers of glass over the top of the filler plug to spread the load.



This is the sort of idea I mean but with this one you can go in from the side to fit the nut and add the filler.



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If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right


Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 20 Apr 06 at 10:21pm

Strawberry, thanks I have thought of this and it's still under consideration but I'm not convinced it will take all our weight

Granite I like the sound of this it seems like a really good option.If I put a washer in as well would the build up over it of fibreglass and epoxy be strong enough to hold the whole lot in,or would the whole lot just pop out like a tube ?

Thanks again everyone



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49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country


Posted By: Granite
Date Posted: 21 Apr 06 at 8:50am

If you are careful it can be very strong. Use epoxy not polyester

You can dig some of the foam out so that the filler can spread under the layers of glass of the hull. if you then sand the gell coat back you can put a couple of layers of glass over the whole thing spreading out about three or 4 cm from the bolt hole.

If you want to be clever you could even gell coat it and get an invisible repair.

I would stear clear of any sort of self tapper into an expanding plug, they put a bolt there for a reason.



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If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right


Posted By: scottish_tornad
Date Posted: 21 Apr 06 at 12:24pm

Les

 The nut set thingy that you are thinking of are called clinch nuts they are designed to put a tapped insert onto thin metals like machine guards.

they work on the same principal as a pop rivet you put them in tighten with special tool and they expand at the back  not knowing what is under the deck of a 49er I wouldnt recommend using them as they may just expand into the FRP causing more damage.

as for embeding a nut for the spini pole fore stays on the Tronado they recomend dilling a hole in the bow and epoxing in part of a bottle screw with nut using west/sp and balloons to thicken i should think the loads on this are quite high so that option would possible work ok IMHO



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tornado GBR389

www.dalgetybaysc.org/home.htm


Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 21 Apr 06 at 6:49pm
What about cutting a slot you can slip a tapped plate in and then orientate it so the load is spread and then refill the slot. Similar principle to fix a small hole where there is some load so you fix an oversize inside insert from the outside and then fill flush

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Garry

Lark 2252, Contender 298

www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk


Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 7:48pm

How i repaired the deck in the end Thanks guys for all the suggestions



-------------
49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country


Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 05 May 06 at 9:29pm


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49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country


Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 05 May 06 at 9:33pm
The Picture is of the part I made bonded into the hull.It seems to be ok,but will get put thro' it's paces this w/end

-------------
49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country


Posted By: tornado435
Date Posted: 11 May 06 at 11:04pm

Not a 49er expert but I've seen Andy Webb do shroud plates on a Hurricane 5.9. Similar problem, supposedly glassed in nuts falling off. All he did was amke the smallest possible hole in the deck, tape nut to end of spanner and then bolt up. Granted leaves an inch or so hole in deck but a damn site better than a hatch. Also he's a genius with glass and you can't see where he has been when he is finished. The repair I saw was on a beach somewhere halfway through the nationals. What he did in an evening without his workshop and full set of tools I don't think I could have done ever!!



Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 12 May 06 at 10:13am
Originally posted by tornado435

Not a 49er expert but I've seen Andy Webb do shroud plates on a Hurricane 5.9. Similar problem, supposedly glassed in nuts falling off. All he did was amke the smallest possible hole in the deck, tape nut to end of spanner and then bolt up. Granted leaves an inch or so hole in deck but a damn site better than a hatch. Also he's a genius with glass and you can't see where he has been when he is finished. The repair I saw was on a beach somewhere halfway through the nationals. What he did in an evening without his workshop and full set of tools I don't think I could have done ever!!

 

I discussedthis very thing with Les while looking at the 49er !



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..


Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 13 May 06 at 12:25am
Les, can you fix my boat when the inevitable happens? Good few beers in it for you

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Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ -
Helensburgh S.C
http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine



Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 17 May 06 at 8:55pm

Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC

Les, can you fix my boat when the inevitable happens? Good few beers in it for you

Sure we can come to some arrangement    



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49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country


Posted By: Captain Aris
Date Posted: 02 Jun 06 at 11:46pm
Nylock nuts?

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Beware of more sail than ballast.

http://www.CaptainAris.com - My Site
mailto:Aris@CaptainAris.com - e-mail


Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 7:54pm
Why didn't we think of that Les?????

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Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ -
Helensburgh S.C
http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine



Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 19 Jul 06 at 9:32pm
Well guys it seems to be working fine at the moment

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49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 20 Jul 06 at 12:34am

Originally posted by les5269

Well guys it seems to be working fine at the moment

 

Fatal mistake !



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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..



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