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When is a race not a race??

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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: When is a race not a race??
    Posted: 31 May 11 at 1:18pm

Imagine the senario of 30 knot winds, class open meeting on the south coast of England, on the open sea and you only have one person wanting to race. This is not a national championship or higher event.

I know the racing rules allow for this to be a race.
 
The question is would you run a race for one competitor?
 
I wouldn't and probably wouldn't even if I had more than one competitor. Mainly because of the safety aspects involved for the competitors and all the volunteers on the water.
 
What do other coastal clubs do?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 1:28pm
To my mind sea conditions are a bigger factor than wind strength.

You've got a bunch of factors to consider but assumming that there were no safety issues for the RC and the safety boats and the only factor is the competitors then I think I'd talk to the top end of the fleet/Class Association rep. If a majority of the top end of the fleet (top half perhaps) want the race to go ahead (different pehaps to not wanting to race themselves) I'd certainly race. If a majority of the top end of the fleet/Class Association don't want a race held then don't go out. You're running the event for all the competitors, not just the mad one - especially if the mad one is hoping for a new mast on the insurance!

Edited by JimC - 31 May 11 at 1:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender 541 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 1:38pm
TBH - I thought you needed a minimum of 3 competitors to constitute a race
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by Contender443

Imagine the senario of 30 knot winds, class open meeting on the south coast of England, on the open sea and you only have one person wanting to race. This is not a national championship or higher event.

I know the racing rules allow for this to be a race.
 
The question is would you run a race for one competitor?
 
I wouldn't and probably wouldn't even if I had more than one competitor. Mainly because of the safety aspects involved for the competitors and all the volunteers on the water.
 
What do other coastal clubs do?
 
 
 
I was due to do safety boat at this event on sunday, we were being borrowed from a neighbouring
club....I was disappointed it was canned but not surprised, big shore dump as well as 30+ knot gusts. Although our launching area is more sheltered than our neighbours, launching safety boats can be trickier/more dangerous than launching single handed dinghies.
 
And like Contender 541 I thought 3 boats were needed for a race?


Edited by GK.LaserII - 31 May 11 at 2:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by Contender 541

TBH - I thought you needed a minimum of 3 competitors to constitute a race
Americas Cup seems to get by with two...
 
In this case, a lot of people would have entered, just would not rank as starters by coming to the line area.
 
Most people would accept racing being cancelled.
Some classes issue guidelines about how much wind they will race in, this can be in the NoR, class rules or whatever.
 
If an event or venue gets a reputation for cancelling too often, it will lose custom. Pompey Perisher springs to mind.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 4:27pm
I think if you run an open and get hit by bad weather then you do have to do what you can to provide sailing for those who want it if it is possible. At the event I assume you were talking about the conditions though challenging were not dangerous. The shore dump was not particularly bad, there was a better than 2:1 boat:safety boat ratio (there were 5 boats racing in total, just one from one fleet). Under those circumstances should a club running an Open refuse those who may have traveled some distance the chance to sail if they want? 

Had conditions been judged to be dangerous then that's clearly another matter - if they are dangerous then racing shouldn't be run however many want to sail. But if they are not dangerous and only one person wants to sail then it's surely right to run racing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rockhopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 6:40pm
At our club we have a rule of five boats wanting to go before starting a race also as the others say it depends on sea conditions if we get 15 to 20 knots from the north east we have trouble launching at low water when the sea is flat but when the tide is in we can lauch from inside the harbour we was sailing in that thirty knots but because it was south or south west it was flatish
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mister Nick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 11 at 7:08pm
I'd run it up until the point that either:
-There are less than two boats that want to race.
- The committee boat and other race staff do not feel that it is safe for them to do their job.

It's the skippers decision to race, so if they don't feel they can handle the conditions then they just won't go out. Last year we had a race cancelled because the committee boat thought it was too windy. Obviously some people are going to be able to handle windier conditions than others, and they should be allowed to race in those conditions if the race staff are still capable of running the event.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 11 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by Contender 541

TBH - I thought you needed a minimum of 3 competitors to constitute a race
 
Many people quote this, but I've never seen it written down.  I'm sure someone can put me right but I've yet to find it in the rules.
 
In a different situation, a club series running over a number of weeks for instance, I've always been of ther opinion that even if only one person turns out in a class, you should run the race as they deserve the win for making the effort to turn out.  Does that make sense?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 11 at 11:16pm
Appendix J (J2.2 - 34 ) States that the sailing instructions should include the following that apply:
...
(34) the minimum number of boats  appearing in the starting area required for a race to be started
...
Which would suggest that it is not defined by the RRS themselves.

Rule 35 states that a race is only scored if 1 or more boats finish.

Therefore unless the SIs dictate otherwise, I would say you only need 1 boat for a race.


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