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Stuart O ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Jul 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 514 |
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Welll what a difference a flag makes? 1 day later and a black flag flying and the PRO has control....but why didnt he use this earlier? My information is that it is an experienced PRO running the event. How can a start with so many boats over ever be fair? and to be honest I would seek redress if as stated so many boats were over the line and a RO hadnt recalled. I do not see that a Rule 69 can even be mentioned in this case, and to even threaten such to a competitor would actually be bullying and thus a breach of Rule 69 in itself. What I think we miss, and IMHO is the important fact, is that Race 3 was canned in the protest room and it wasnt the worst of the starts. So all competitors should be annouyed if the others weren't canned either. It strikes me that this is a case that the RC got it wrong and should amend, but also look at the SIs maybe with 1 day canned it should be poss to qualify on the 2nd....what would have happened if it had been blowing 40 knots on the 1st day and all racing had been canned? |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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I believe rule 69 was mentioned in the context of competitors trying to "persuade" others to withdraw requests for redress. It would be the competitor who is trying to put pressure on the requestor not to go through with the request who may face the wrath of the Jury. It would depend on the degree of persuasion being applied!
In the case of a Worlds - do we really want the Championship to be won by someone who was repeatedly OCS but not penalised. In many ways it would have been better for the RO to request redress, or take it upon himself to abandon the other questionable races. Certainly, if a protest committee finds that a boat is clearly over the line (clearly meaning that even the competitors on board could not ignore the fact) and continues to race, even without a black flag, then there is a distinct possibility that this will be found to be a deliberate breach of a rule, which is a rule 2 infringement. Personally I believe that the attitude that lets a fleet sail on even if many boats were OCS is not one to be encouraged. There are remedies - I understand that the RO at the recent Squib Nationals blackflagged 25% of the fleet in one race (108 boats competing). Sending a Jury boat down the line a minute before the start can work. I have seen one RO take the radical step of setting a line with ahuge committee boat bias and blackflagging a large number of boats (not exactly fair, but it certainly calmed the fleet down). In some cases making the line longer is effective. Gordon |
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Gordon
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Lukepiewalker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1340 |
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1. No General recall in first start. This learns them that if they push the line on the principle that if they are over all of their rivals will be over and they'll get another shot isn't going to fly
2. Then unleash the black flag for the second start Once more, no general recalls. 3. They should have got the message by now... I'm slightly disturbed that the report for one of the races suggests the Jury Boat should have done something about a port tack barger at the windward mark, although the report appears to have been edited now... 'About a third of the fleet are on the foredeck paddling to the line at 30 seconds to go and the start is postponed' - Hmmm... I don't know where to start with that one... |
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Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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The role of on the water Jurys is often a matter for discussion between the judges and the organising authority. Judges are neither umpires nor referees. They only intervene when requested to do so.
If the Jury has been requested (and the SIs are written accordingly) to apply Appendix P (rule 42 on the water) then they will do so. However, each Jury will then decide on a policy for Jury protests. Very often the decision is taken not to intervene, or any protest would be limited to rule 2 infringements, not sailing the course in the absence of other boats, or hitting the mark and not taking a penalty. So if a prt tack boat infringes the Jury boat may well follow policy and leave it to the competitors to protest. Apparently, in this case no competitor felt sufficient ly aggreived to protest. Gordon |
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Gordon
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Lukepiewalker ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1340 |
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I had a look at the SIs, only appendix P was mentioned. It just disturbs me that people feel that it's the Jury boats job to sort everything out when the onus is on the sailors for their conduct and rules observance.
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Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile" |
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