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% penalty for winning races

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AlexM View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Dec 08 at 5:49pm

Does anyone use any form of % penalties for winning races?  i.e. if you win Race 1 then you carry say a 10% time penalty into Race2?

Something we are looking into, so the club legends don't keep winning everything and some mere mortals can have their moment of glory

We are currently using Sailwave and i can see any easy way of applying this rule (through a score code) other than manualy adding 10% on to the time entered

Alex



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Post Options Post Options   Quote radixon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 08 at 6:19pm
I have heard of a Junior PY rating to encourage Juniors racing.

In all in handicap racing the number of junior sailors was falling so they introduced the Junior PY rating for Lasers, Toppers etc which has encouraged more kids to race.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 08 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by AlexM

Does anyone use any form of % penalties for winning races?  i.e. if you win Race 1 then you carry say a 10% time penalty into Race2?

Something we are looking into, so the club legends don't keep winning everything and some mere mortals can have their moment of glory

We are currently using Sailwave and i can see any easy way of applying this rule (through a score code) other than manualy adding 10% on to the time entered

Alex

 

Just amend their handicap!

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AlexM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 08 at 6:47pm
that's is the other way.... but to decide who gets a lower handicap would create problems  i just thought if we could bring in "speed fines" that only lasted the next race it would be more fair??
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Enterprising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 08 at 7:55pm

sailwave allows you to adapt the handicap, for either one race or until further notice.

we run is as first 4 have their handicaps ajusted 20/15/10/5, and the last 4 too.

ours is cumulative, and runs alongside the existing scratch series, allowing us to give a prize to the person that has improved the most over the course of a series.

you can get to quite big gaps. we have over 200 points between the fastest and slowest, and when ajusted it comes out within a minute if everyone has sailed their average positions. It means someone who normally sails off the front but only just squeaks a race ahead of the fleet, they are going to end up off the back by the time the personals are factored in.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote bigwavedave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 08 at 8:23pm

So the result is that you have won a race, not because of your ability but because the best sailor has had his handicap fixed to allow you to win.

Shallow victory imo. Not one that I would want.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 08 at 9:11pm
We run a system of personal handicaps based on adding minutes minutes. The top (insert number of boats here) in each race are given a handicap correction and the bottom (insert number of boats here) are given a handicap correction. Maximum of 16 minute subtraction and the scratch men on 0. This is used for a particular series designed to encourage beginners and recent course 'graduates' to start racing. This is a very informal series, and this system is not used outside of this series. We used to run them as pursuit races which meant the correction was easily added or subtracted to the start times. Really to keep it 'fair' across the board the correction needs to be applied to the corrected time. With average lap times and the like the correction might be too large. Obviously the other issue is that the handicaps and alterations need to be kept track of, along with assignment of initial handicap numbers. I would not advocate the use of this system outside of a series specifically for this purpose, the informality allows for the more experienced racers, safety boat crews and the like to offer advice.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Enterprising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 08 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by bigwavedave

So the result is that you have won a race, not because of your ability but because the best sailor has had his handicap fixed to allow you to win.

Shallow victory imo. Not one that I would want.

not quite. the handicaps are set to equalise.  Just like jockeys carrying more weight or touring cars carrying success ballast.

it works better on a series, when a sailor who consistently sails better than their handicap, as their handicap improves as well, wins.

it rewards the most improved sailor, rather than the best. It has been won by the top sailors in the fleet just because they have been improving too.

We always run a scratch series in the same races too, so that the best out and out sailor wins.

it is also a good way of judging who is the consistently best sailors and also by how much, because you can get to see your personal handicap against other peoples, and gives you an incentive to try to chip a bit more off it.

and if you are a top sailor it pushes you to go that much quicker, to get away further, so that despite the handicap you can still win the race.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote dics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 8:36am

Originally posted by AlexM

i just thought if we could bring in "speed fines" that only lasted the next race it would be more fair??

So if Mr Club Loser wins the first race of the day becuase he had a bit of luck and sailed well he will be penalised in the next race to let Mr Club Champ go through. Not much of an incentive.

Have you thought of a buddy system where the top guy teams up with the bottom guy after the first race and their results are combined for the event (or something like that)? This will also give a chance of the good guys to mentor the bottom ones and pass on advice and the tactics they used.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 11:19am
Originally posted by dics

Originally posted by AlexM

i just thought if we could bring in "speed fines" that only lasted the next race it would be more fair??

So if Mr Club Loser wins the first race of the day becuase he had a bit of luck and sailed well he will be penalised in the next race to let Mr Club Champ go through. Not much of an incentive.

yes bur Mr Club Loser never win's and then is disheartened and does less sailing. 

 



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