New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: % penalty for winning races
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

% penalty for winning races

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
bigwavedave View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jun 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 944
Post Options Post Options   Quote bigwavedave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 12:24pm

And the guy who trains hard, invests his time and money into his boat is penalised for doing well. Not much of an incentive.

Not everyone can win, thats life.

Back to Top
Ian S View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 18 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 68
Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 1:32pm

I've got a lot of sympathy for Alex with this idea, anything which encourages new sailors to get stuck in has got to be a good idea.  Think of it from a newbies point of view, fancy sailing, do course, spend probably 1500 on a boat, get shouted at on start line, finish last, last in to changing rooms, bar etc, gives up..

Something like this gives a tangible feeling of progress as they see their handicap altering.  We run very successful Personal HGandicap prizes at major club events, on occassion the event winner picks up the ph prize if they've excelled themselves, and  mid and back end fleet are happy to pick it up if they've sailed well.

If club legend gets upset then I suspect that they either don't care about newbies taking part or are happy being the biggest fish in a small pond. 

If you don't encourage your new intake then after natural attrition you'll end up with no one sailing..  just my 2 p's worth

Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6582
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 3:37pm
This is sometimes called a Golf Handicap system. They're widely used sailing events in in Australia, even at very major regattas, and certainly don't seem to have done golf any harm. Good thing to try IMHO. Actually I have a thought for something we could do for our club Wednesday series...
Back to Top
Medway Maniac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2788
Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by bigwavedave

And the guy who trains hard, invests his time and money into his boat is penalised for doing well. Not much of an incentive.

Not everyone can win, thats life.

Exactly.

Why should I bother to give any thought to my boat or my sailing when the effect will be dialled out in the final results. Best just turn up and see what happens, maybe sail badly when it doesn't matter to help when it does matter, maybe give up and do a sport where I'll get rewarded to investing time and effort.

Back to Top
AlexM View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Jan 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 857
Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 08 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by bigwavedave

And the guy who trains hard, invests his time and money into his boat is penalised for doing well. Not much of an incentive.

Not everyone can win, thats life.

Exactly.

Why should I bother to give any thought to my boat or my sailing when the effect will be dialled out in the final results. Best just turn up and see what happens, maybe sail badly when it doesn't matter to help when it does matter, maybe give up and do a sport where I'll get rewarded to investing time and effort.

I think your missing the point?  the top guys are still going to win the series just maybe a Mr Loser might have his day in one of the races of that series, which will mean more to him than the top guy actually winning the series!

Back to Top
ChrisJ View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 07 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 337
Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 08 at 1:28pm

As others have said: Keep it for just one of your series, so you can encourage a different set of people into the sailing and racing. We use Sunday racing for the out and out winner takes all, and the Wednesday Evening is run as a personal handicap pursuit race. Typically we get 50-60 boats on a Sunday, and 60-70 on a Wednesday evening. (Want to join us? Burghfield at J12 on the M4).

The details and calculations involved in the personal handicap are all published on the web site and everyone knows in advance how far they have moved the last week: There is of course a prize for the highest personal handicap, to provide something for the experts.

Over the last 3 or 4 years, with 18 races on Wednesday each year, we have had only one person win 2 races in one year - so it does seem to allow the winning of races to be shared. Do the club champs still race? Certainly over the last 2 or 3 years the prize for highest handicap has been fought over by 2 different National Champions: yet beginners can be out in the same race competing against them.

We use a scheme where the top 1/2 of boats get a varying number of seconds added to their start time (start later), while the lower half get seconds removed from their start time. All differences are cumulative and are based on seconds difference: but you actually start at a rounded 30 second start time.

 

Cheers, Chris

Back to Top
Matt Jackson View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 04
Location: Darlington
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 962
Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 08 at 4:47pm

Originally posted by bigwavedave

And the guy who trains hard, invests his time and money into his boat is penalised for doing well. Not much of an incentive.

You could see it as penalising success, but there is another way to look at it:-

So you have all the top kit, put in loads of hours on the water and have a personal coach. You are probably going to be at or very near the top in most club events you enter, but if this is seen as a foregone conclusion by your competitors they have little incentive to go out? In time this is bad for competition so you are the top of an ever decreasing field.

If, however you have a self adusting personal handicap system you give some incentive to the middle of the fleet and actually give back some competition the the guys at the top because they have to keep improving to stay in front. Everyone is a winner!

Of course you still need you scratch handicap series so the guys at the top are still rewaded for their work/skill and so the middle of the fleet can judge how they are improving (if at all) in the 'real world'... whatever that is.



Edited by Matt Jackson
RS400 1289, Laser 203001
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy