Is that it then?

Not sure if I am alone Graeme but I enjoy buying into a class, learning how to make the boat go well, make a bunch of mates, travel to events, have a laugh, be known and have some fun with people I get to like. Not really interested in moving every couple years, but maybe thats a "me" thing?

Griff, tell me a better boat than a Enterprise? Light, easy to use, plenty of them, really OLD design, does it need to be got rid of?

Originally posted by 423zero really OLD design, does it need to be got rid of?

Well lets make a critique of a typical 50s design without naming classes.

Hull shape - unsteady at speed, not very manageable gybing. Favours lighter crews than 21stC average population.

Interior Layout - even though somewhat updated in recent construction is outdated and expensive, and having originally being designed with old school family sailing and construction in wood in mind has poor ergonomics.

Rig - old school rig has poor gust response making the boat unnecessarily difficult to sail in gusty conditions. Small roach and long boom make the boat more challenging to gybe than it might be. Sheeting angles not ideal, sheeting positions forced by jib shape (itself not positioned as designed) not ergonomic.
Batten layout tends to cause end batten poke and sails lose performance faster than necessary.

Foils. Unsophisticated shapes geared around plywood or sheet metal less effective than they could be, also increasing handling difficulty.

Hull construction in general. Many detail features left over from original design in wood, unnecessarily complex and expensive to build. Heavier than would be needed if layout were optimised for modern construction.

Probably no single old school class has all of these issues, but most of them have most. Now you might say that no current class fixes all those issues, and I fear you'd be right, but it doesn't mean it couldn't be done.

The trouble is there are other problems too. If you solve everything on that list, and especially the weight carrying, which means length, you end up with a boat that is a lot faster than its 50s equivalent, and may well be fast enough to make the boat unappealing to a sizeable chunk of its potential market. But if you deliberately slug the hull shape to bring the speed down, it loses the crisp feel of a throughbred and starts to feel like an unappealing barge.

Its not easy!


Edited by JimC - 23 Nov 21 at 8:10pm

Originally posted by Grumpycat Originally posted by iGRF Originally posted by H2 Not sure if I am alone Graeme but I enjoy buying into a class, learning how to make the boat go well, make a bunch of mates, travel to events, have a laugh, be known and have some fun with people I get to like. Not really interested in moving every couple years, but maybe thats a "me" thing? Well in a way I quite envy you in that you've found a great boat you like and can do all that, the joys of being clinically obese I guess. But meanwhile what is there for us perfect people?   The thing is they are plenty of boats that fit your small but perfectly formed body shape.  But singlehanded wise most of them are  slow boats streaker/Europe etc that you have no interest in and thats without revisiting the  aero/zero that you have strong views about. Even you cannot rewrite physics, re size of person to size of person . But I do understand why you don’t want want to go the slow boat route . But as Jim c has said there are no perfect boats , so compromises are always part of boat choices .

True, but there is so much of this these days.. I'm thinking of starting SLM, Short Lives Matter.

Originally posted by iGRF I suppose it's my windsurfing background that needs a new board every couple of years to keep the interest focussed ....... I just don't quite get why the rest of y'all don't want new stuff and if it does come along like the other things I like, bikes,m/cycles, boards etc, just rush out and buy..