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tink View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Dec 21 at 4:28pm
Answering iGRFs original post probably yes, Melges 15 boat of the year and an inflatable cat dinghy of the year- a revamped very old design in the cats case. 
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patj View Drop Down
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Posts: 639 		Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 21 at 2:56pm
We've turned up at a class event with our correct boat and sail number only to find that someone else had the same sail number and had registered already. The organisers wanted us to change our number but I held my ground and refused since we conformed to the rules. Eventually the other boat sailed with a taped X after the number. 
I believe they had borrowed the boat from a previous owner for the nationals and supplied their own sails.
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 21 at 4:54pm
.. while black spinnaker repair tape continues to be available on the market, this is a non topic IMO.

I struggle to believe a regatta held anywhere in the dinghy sailing world would struggle to come up with the materials or common-sense to enable one competitor to create a unique number of their sail to fit within SI's when needed.  

I've seen boats practically rebuilt overnight at championships for goodness sakes, changing a number on a sail is pretty small beer.
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Peter Barton View Drop Down
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Posts: 129 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Barton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 21 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by Peter Barton

At an RS Aero event, whether Class or PY racing, a RO only needs to note the sail number and not the rig size, as there will not be duplicated numbers.

Second hand sails?

"Can I borrow your spare 5 rig, its a bit windy for me/9 rig its a bit light for me and I had a big breakfast?"

The former is more likely, and it *will* happen! In defiance of SIs or not.

The RRS and Class Rules are clear on the need for a unique sail number and in the RS Aero's case, to match the hull. Second hand sails are the same issue for any class, subject to their Class Rules. Sailors need to conform to the rules. If they break them and race management don't enforce the rules then, in this scenario, they may expect identification confusion. 

At any lower key racing it becomes less likely that race management will enforce sail number rules at the risk of putting off participation. That is why SIs often have a leniency of allowing boats to use different sail numbers after requesting and receiving RO's permission. The RO could then at least insist on non duplication or accept duplication in different rig sizes, if they choose.

RS Aero numbers are formed from digital 8s so it is very easy, when permitted, to customise a number temporarily by adding or removing a segment to form a new number that is not already being used at the event/race. In my experience in RS Aeros this is very rare in practice however, as most RS Aero owners already own the rigs they are likely to want to use.

For major RS Aero championships I encourage the use of a NoR/SI where borrowed equipment (only) is allowed a sail number that does not match the hull. That helps the ease of lending and borrowing equipment to promote participation,  avoiding the effort and non environmental wastage of the need to fully change a number for an event and change it back afterwards. 


Edited by Peter Barton - 14 Dec 21 at 5:07pm
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 21 at 3:47pm
At 'proper' class events they are usually pretty strict about duplicate numbers, maybe club racing it would happen but I doubt it would happen at my home club.
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 916 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 21 at 7:25am
Originally posted by Peter Barton

At an RS Aero event, whether Class or PY racing, a RO only needs to note the sail number and not the rig size, as there will not be duplicated numbers.

Second hand sails?

"Can I borrow your spare 5 rig, its a bit windy for me/9 rig its a bit light for me and I had a big breakfast?"

The former is more likely, and it *will* happen! In defiance of SIs or not.


Edited by Paramedic - 11 Dec 21 at 7:26am
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 21 at 10:22pm
I agree with Pete Barton in so much as all the RO needs to record is sail numbers but that presupposes that sailors sign in for every race and, honestly, declare their sail size. At my home club we have Aero sailors who use two different sizes during a series and we only have to sign on once so it relies on the OOD to spot anomalies. On the single occasion I used my Fire sail in preference to the standard Blaze sail I was classified as a Blaze, that was despite signing on as a Fire as my sail number came up as a Blaze on the system and nobody noticed. On that occasion it was pretty irrelevant as I was sailing a smaller rig (and I am usually bottom half of the fleet) but ad I been sailing a Halo that day I would have had an unfair advantage. That said they usually notice if one of the more accomplished Laser sailors uses a different rig...

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 10 Dec 21 at 10:23pm
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 21 at 11:21am
Originally posted by Woodman

I believe flashes have been on the sails for some time. Question is why it needs so many. Other classes are all predominantly used with one size of sail with allowance for a variety of cuts if its open sailmaking. With the aero it seems to need at least two sails to work in a ‘normal’ wind range for an ‘average’ sailor. 

You could see what they were trying to do by copying the Laser model so one boat covers kids , small adults and normal sized people. 
But they just got the sail sizes wrong. The 5 is spot on , much better than a 4.7 so that’s the kids section of the market covered . The 7 is just too big for small adults and only just big enough for  normally sized people on inland water. And the 9 sail is just to big for the hull length of the boat.
So we now have the 6 which does fill the small adult spot. All they have to do now is sort out a proper full sized sail for normal sized adults , next stop in my view will be a 8.

As was said early , I am sure Pete Barton will be along at some time saying we are both talking ‘ tosh ‘ . Smile 
See I was nearly  right about that at least  LOL


Edited by Grumpycat - 10 Dec 21 at 3:28pm
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Peter Barton View Drop Down
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Posts: 129 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Peter Barton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 21 at 11:01am
Originally posted by davidyacht

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Originally posted by davidyacht

I can see problems for ROs identifying the titchy Aero 5, 6, 7 and 9 numbers to attribute the correct PY numbers, and there is scope for banditry at one off events, but if RS think that this will result in more participation, then it is probably a good thing.

The different size rigs have different coloured flashes on the sails aft of the window which probably helps but I'll bet many ROs haven't realised...

Looking at the Aero page on the RS website, have the coloured flashes always been on the sails?  I can see the yellow flashes on some Aero 7 sails but not all, and no flashes on the Aero 9?

The colour flashes on the three mainsails (light blue, yellow & pink) were introduced after the first season, in late 2015, to provide an easy quick glance solution to rig identification. New sails come with them painted on the rear of the window. For earlier used sails there was a (free) sticker option that could be easily added (distributed at events and easily posted).
That RS Aero 9 photo is from our first RS Aerocup at Barcelona in Oct 2015, pre colour flashers.


If a club RO gets RS Aeros joining his mixed fleet race for the first time he may not immediately understand that, if he is not familiar. He will then need to rely on the wording on the sail insignia which says exactly what it is e.g. 'RS Aero 7', which is simpler and clearer than most classes with logos or abbreviations. 
When we have a a large event with three fleets, like the UK Nationals with 138 boats this year, the 'quick glance' flashes are hugely valuable for both racers and the race team. 
At an RS Aero event, whether Class or PY racing, a RO only needs to note the sail number and not the rig size, as there will not be duplicated numbers.


Edited by Peter Barton - 10 Dec 21 at 11:02am
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1330 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 21 at 11:01am
Originally posted by Grumpycat

I don’t think there were on sails at the boats launch but the change happened with in the first few months . Certainly when my friend bought one about a year after the boat launch, his sails ( 7 and 9 ) had them on . For any that doesn’t already know, 5 is blue, 7 is yellow and 9 is pink .
Tbh I find the same people that can’t tell the difference between a Laser 4.7 and a Laser standard or the difference between the Aero 5/7/9 are the same people that CAN spot every different version of a N12 or Merlin rocket made since 1950 at a mile away .  LOL

Indeed this is the case  LOL
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