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Timing Clock – Dinghy Pursuit Races
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Timing Clock – Dinghy Pursuit Races
    Posted: 18 Nov 21 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by A2Z

Gosh, what a cheery bunch. 
4230 - how do you know pursuit racing is so bad if you’ve never tried it?
Grumpcat - by that logic you don’t need any signals… just declare the first start to be 1100hrs GMT and tell competitors to sync their watches to the speaking clock. 
Quite glad I don’t sail with all you miserable sods!

Err I never said  you didn’t need signals ie guns and flags, that would be stupid .But that’s all you need. 
All a sailor needs to know is his start time and set his watch to first gun, SIMLPIES .
What you don’t  need a great big timer on the back of the committee boat, it’s total overkill for something so simple .
 BUT if that’s what OP club wants , that’s fine . Smile
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Posts: 3399 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 21 at 9:15pm
GC, very hard to see that pursuit is easier to run than a handicap, please explain.
Robert
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 21 at 8:08am
Originally posted by 423zero

GC, very hard to see that pursuit is easier to run than a handicap, please explain.

Anything is easy if you know how to do it............

With a pursuit race once the start sequence is out of the way its sit back at watch almost. If your course/lake is too small and slower boats have sailed a lap before faster boats have started it becomes a bit more problematic but other than that the race finish is a simple work/motor back through the fleet and record positions. No times, no entering results into a computer to generate the result with the associated risk of getting it wrong.

Race system choice is horses for courses. They work brilliantly in some settings, abysmally in others. If your RO is incompetent you stand little chance with either.

Re the original post assuming a committee boat start whats wrong with an analogue kitchen clock, set to midnight and released at the race start? You only need to give the competitors a clue as go when the next start is and when they should start their watch. If its shore based this simply shouldn't be a problem unless you're late arriving and thats not the fault of the race system.


Edited by Paramedic - 19 Nov 21 at 8:12am
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 21 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by 423zero

GC, very hard to see that pursuit is easier to run than a handicap, please explain.

Anything is easy if you know how to do it............

With a pursuit race once the start sequence is out of the way its sit back at watch almost. If your course/lake is too small and slower boats have sailed a lap before faster boats have started it becomes a bit more problematic but other than that the race finish is a simple work/motor back through the fleet and record positions. No times, no entering results into a computer to generate the result with the associated risk of getting it wrong.

Race system choice is horses for courses. They work brilliantly in some settings, abysmally in others. If your RO is incompetent you stand little chance with either.

Re the original post assuming a committee boat start whats wrong with an analogue kitchen clock, set to midnight and released at the race start? You only need to give the competitors a clue as go when the next start is and when they should start their watch. If its shore based this simply shouldn't be a problem unless you're late arriving and thats not the fault of the race system.

Paramedic thanks  very much for posting this explanation. You did it much clearer than I would have done and with out my innate grumpiness  Wink

Re RO s . This is a thankless job and clubs need to organise as much help as possible for them both with training and with auto starting systems . Not only does our m/c do all the starting and finish guns .When doing handicap races all club members are already entering in to the m/c( with a manual override if people are swapping boats )  so all the RO has to do is click on their name to enter them into the race and at the finish all the RO has to click on their name again and the m/c automatically records their time and works out the results.
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Posts: 3399 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 21 at 11:35am
The technical side isn't the issue, it's the dozen different boats and humans.
Robert
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Posts: 3395 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 21 at 2:25pm
I'm in the 'pursuit races are easy' camp here. For a small <25, casual fleet they are an absolute doddle, big fleets make things a bit more complex but still no more difficult that handicap. At my holiday club we run several each season, beach starts and we time to the second, it's pretty easy for non-sailing friends/relatives to understand, run the starts and log laps then everybody remembers who they had last passed or been passed by to fine tune the results as the RO's work from the shore.

I do get that there may be disputes if the racing is in a competitive fleet due to the lack of a fixed finish line but for (relatively) friendly club racing I think it works well.

I'm looking forward to the day we can pit our young Int Moth sailor against a Topper or two, I think hell only have to pass then about 5 times  Ouch


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 19 Nov 21 at 2:27pm
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Posts: 749 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 21 at 2:40pm
At my old club it was pretty common for the RO to set the course, start the clock which was automated with hooters and a finish hooter and then join in the race so long as everyone remembered who was directly infront and directly behind them its easy to then just get people to write the results on a piece of paper when they come back in. That has to be the definition of simple?
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 21 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by 423zero

The technical side isn't the issue, it's the dozen different boats and humans.

Really sorry but I still don’t understand your problem as the above statement also applies to handicap races too.

The only time pursuits can get complicated is when you run personal handicap pursuits when every boat can have its own start time and the gap between the slowest and fastest can get to be excessive. ( some clubs limit the amount a handicap can move to mitigate this problem .)

Pursuits are not perfect but neither are handicap races ,they just have different strengths and different weaknesses 


Edited by Grumpycat - 19 Nov 21 at 5:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 21 at 5:58pm
How many clubs run pursuits on a regular basis rather than just once or twice a year?
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 21 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by A2Z

How many clubs run pursuits on a regular basis rather than just once or twice a year?
 

Great question  Smile

In my case I have been a member of three clubs in my 30 years of sailing.
All three clubs ran mostly pursuits with the odd handicap race mixed in. 

Tbh I would think most clubs run mostly handicaps with the odd pursuit mixed in . 
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