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Clean wind or favoured tack?
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 22 at 9:16am
Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by sawman

 Tack, tack back - parallel lane to the original, enough gap to break dirty air, and the kinetic benefits of 2 roll tacks 
I refer the honourable gent to rule 42.


Oh come on lol. If you cannot come out of the tack faster than you went in , there is no point doing it  LOL Wink
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3399 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 22 at 9:29am
Couple of good pumps too
Robert
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sawman View Drop Down
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Posts: 205 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sawman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 22 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Grumpycat

Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by sawman

 Tack, tack back - parallel lane to the original, enough gap to break dirty air, and the kinetic benefits of 2 roll tacks 
I refer the honourable gent to rule 42.


Oh come on lol. If you cannot come out of the tack faster than you went in , there is no point doing it  LOL Wink

theres always someone who is rubbish at roll tacking blathering on about rule 42 Wink

in this situation, it would be reasonable to return to the speed you had before getting stuck in dirty air - so not gaining speed, more returning to previous speed.
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sawman View Drop Down
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Posts: 205 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sawman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 22 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Couple of good pumps too

if you have got it, flaunt it....
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 22 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by sawman

Originally posted by Grumpycat

Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by sawman

 Tack, tack back - parallel lane to the original, enough gap to break dirty air, and the kinetic benefits of 2 roll tacks 
I refer the honourable gent to rule 42.


Oh come on lol. If you cannot come out of the tack faster than you went in , there is no point doing it  LOL Wink

theres always someone who is rubbish at roll tacking blathering on about rule 42 Wink

in this situation, it would be reasonable to return to the speed you had before getting stuck in dirty air - so not gaining speed, more returning to previous speed.
 No, it’s reasonable that  “just after the tack or gybe is completed, the boat’s speed is not greater than it would have been in the absence of the tack or gybe.”.  You can’t use the tack to get to accelerate you, so there are no “kinetic benefits” to be had, at best there is still some loss as there will be speed (and distance)  reduction in the turn that can’t be compensated for.
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1458 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 22 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by A2Z


Originally posted by sawman


Originally posted by Grumpycat


Originally posted by A2Z


Originally posted by sawman

 Tack, tack back - parallel lane to the original, enough gap to break dirty air, and the kinetic benefits of 2 roll tacks 
I refer the honourable gent to rule 42.

Oh come on lol. If you cannot come out of the tack faster than you went in , there is no point doing it  LOL Wink

theres always someone who is rubbish at roll tacking blathering on about rule 42 Wink
in this situation, it would be reasonable to return to the speed you had before getting stuck in dirty air - so not gaining speed, more returning to previous speed.

 No, it’s reasonable that  “just after the tack or gybe is completed, the boat’s speed is not greater than it would have been in the absence of the tack or gybe.”.  You can’t use the tack to get to accelerate you, so there are no “kinetic benefits” to be had, at best there is still some loss as there will be speed (and distance)  reduction in the turn that can’t be compensated for.


So right and yet so wrong! The legal gain in a roll tack is in improved VMG during the tack. Ie when pointing upwind. If the return (and no more) to entry speed is efficient then a big gain is available. So kinetic gains mischaracterises the mechanism of gain, but the mechanism dos rely on good kinetics.
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 22 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by sawman

Originally posted by Grumpycat

Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by sawman

 Tack, tack back - parallel lane to the original, enough gap to break dirty air, and the kinetic benefits of 2 roll tacks 
I refer the honourable gent to rule 42.


Oh come on lol. If you cannot come out of the tack faster than you went in , there is no point doing it  LOL Wink

theres always someone who is rubbish at roll tacking blathering on about rule 42 Wink

in this situation, it would be reasonable to return to the speed you had before getting stuck in dirty air - so not gaining speed, more returning to previous speed.
 No, it’s reasonable that  “just after the tack or gybe is completed, the boat’s speed is not greater than it would have been in the absence of the tack or gybe.”.  You can’t use the tack to get to accelerate you, so there are no “kinetic benefits” to be had, at best there is still some loss as there will be speed (and distance)  reduction in the turn that can’t be compensated for.

It might ‘ reasonable’ . But every dinghy sailor from reasonable club sailor to world champions does come out of the tack quicker . Smile
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3399 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 22 at 5:21pm
I fairly race through the tack, I am very athletic, this throwing the boat through the manoeuvre must generate drive, but it isn't looked for, just a natural consequence.
Robert
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 22 at 8:46pm
This is very true, which is why this rule is very silly. 
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 928 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 22 at 6:49am
It isn't really though is it because if they did do away with it i'm pretty sure on some days I could roll tack my solo up the beat head to wind. Its only in conditions where we really shouldn't be racing that this crops up I suppose and if we decide to sail we - mostly - all know where the line is.

I don't think there is much wrong with any of the propulsion rules. Windsurfing removed them and within 3 years a thriving racing scene at my club had died completely.
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