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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 6:49am
Originally posted by 423zero

Simplest thing have no overlap at all, boats can only go round Marks in line astern, if you haven't got past before 3 boat lengths, bad luck, this would get rid of a load of protests and rules.


And spoil the game. All games have rules. Monopoly would cause fewer household rifts if you could wander round the board staying where you like for free, but it would be a tedious way of spending a Sunday afternoon.

Surely, when teaching rules to those starting racing a picture is worth a thousand words, and playing with toy boats or cardboard cutouts, 10000.

What we are trying to put into more simple words can't be, really, the rules as written aren't very wordy, even if the situations can be complex. Visually, they become very clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 7:32am
Originally posted by JimC

It was all keyed in with mast abeam and all the complex special situation stuff that got ditched in the big rewrite back when half the current sailing population weren't even born. 

Bring it back  LOL
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 7:38am
If people think the 3 boat length rule is hard to judge, mast abeam was impossible! 2 different angles with 2 different wishes was always going to create 2 very different opinions, with no reliable witnesses.

I was sad when it went, but can't imagine it returning.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 7:08pm
Three rules could cover it,
1/ One way round.
2/ No bumping.
3/ Give way.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 8:16pm
Again, just taking away the tactics.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote johnbrooker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 8:28pm
Thanks Jim, didn't know that. Is it actually wrong to use the term 'luffing rights' though since the title should have the terminology in it that people would search for. Otherwise no one will see it! 

It seems to adequately describe what you are allowed to do when luffing. It's not saying there is a right to luff necessarily- rather it's saying which rights you have should you decide to luff.

And thanks for your re-wording suggestion. I think it's a little mind-boggling for an amateur sailor but that may be the only way to word it 100% correctly. 







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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 9:15pm
A bit like Golf, if you are a bit slow you ask them if they want to play through
Rule 4/ politeness at all times   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by johnbrooker

I think it's a little mind-boggling for an amateur sailor but that may be the only way to word it 100% correctly.

The only way to word the rules correctly is the way the rules are worded themselves.

The problem is that the rules have evolved over many years* and each evolution has been intended to reduce ambiguity. This has usually led to more complexity (the big rewrite a few years ago which was a deliberate effort to simplify the rules). But, as the rewrite demonstrated, simplifying the wording just reintroduces some of the ambiguity. The RRS committee did a pretty decent job but since then the 'new rules' have been refined and 'tweaked' to reduce the possibility for misunderstanding (at least amongst 'serious' racing sailors) and IMHO any effort to rephrase them in 'plain language' is going to reduce their precision and lead to new ambiguities.

* I started racing in 1965 and, apart from a few years between '73 and '80 when I courted, married and started a family, i have raced regularly since so I've experienced many of the rule changes first hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by 423zero

A bit like Golf, if you are a bit slow you ask them if they want to play through
Rule 4/ politeness at all times   

That's more or less how I race at club level, I want to be able to have a chat in the bar afterwords without any bad feeling. Elvstrom himself said something alongs the lines of “You haven’t won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors”. It is a good thing to remember, especially at club and local open level.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 10:01pm
I would say it is wrong, or at least inadvisable to use the term luffing rights, since this is a concept from the pre 1996 rewrite days when there were specific rules about the right to luff. There are no longer any such rules, so using the term suggests, amongst other things, that the person using it hasn't read a rule book since 1995!
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