Which Clubs use modified PY numbers |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6602 |
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Across every class I've ever looked at the finish times in a typical race are in the order of a twenty percent spread, usually more. So if the fleets were having a close race before they will be afterwards if there's a two percent change in relative handicap. No doubt the odd place or two will swap round, but, frankly, who's to tell which way round is correct? The sailors at the front of the fleet will still be at the front, and the sailors who still have plenty of scope for improving will still be in much the same place in the fleet too. Edited by JimC - 02 Sep 13 at 11:56pm |
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3004 |
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I think that's true, you take it as a given and get on with it.
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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We do at Hunts for the older Merlins we have. The Phantom is now about where it needs to be although I can still see this getting faster over the next couple of years or so so we will probably track it.
Not sure what our figures are from the RYA site as I have no access to it.
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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transient ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 21 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 715 |
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They do a calculation all of their own compensating for the tide. I believe Lancing do an adjustment for tide as well although they only use it for certain races.....Tidal flow being a reasonably predictable factor, it makes sense to try and tackle it. Well done to them for giving it a go, not sure if they got it right though? |
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GybeFunny ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 27 Oct 09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 399 |
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Chipstead SC make our own amendments, they are on page 30 of our programme here:
We are a small lake and thats why things like Graduates and Solos perform very well on our type of sailing. We follow the RYA guidance and crunch the numbers to see what the yardsticks should be and these are generally accepted, it is pretty hard to argue against the maths. However we are primarily a fleet racing club so any handicap racing tends to take less importance than the fleet racing. The best sailors are far more keen on beating another boat of their class than winning on some spreadsheet. |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8953 |
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I'm not trying to compare the 20% spread, though. I'm comparing helms who are very close on ability and if sailing the same class will swap positions regularly. If that is happening within the handicap results, and one of the classes is moved reletive to the other, then the balance is destroyed, and at that point 2% is a huge amount. I suppose the answer would be to link the 2 classes on handicap, so the smaller class would change to stay with the numerically bigger one, despite not having enough ruturns of its own. But then you move away from pure numbers. I'm also still not convinced that most clubs have enough returns not to have personal handicapping coming into play with the changes. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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tgruitt ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Dec 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2479 |
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I see the RYA are asking for returns to be made but I don't see what information they gain by sending back the form? I sail at a club that doesn't adjust locally (although should do) and all the RYA form asks for are the number of each class and the PY (standard). How do they gain any useful data from this as it doesn't include race results?
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Needs to sail more...
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marke ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 16 Jun 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 211 |
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Tom
The MUCH preferred option is that your club submits its data into the online PYS system. If you use Sailwave, HAL, or a spreadsheet to do the handicap calculations then this is very easy to do - much easier than filling in the excel form and it gives us raw data to use. I haven't looked at the excel form this year - but last year it asked for the club to provide for each class - the number of individual competitors for that class (i.e. different helms), the number of appearances (i.e. how many races x boats), the PY used at your club, AND the calculated PY based on the elapsed time or the handicappers estimate of what the PY should be. Again if you use Sailwave, Hal, or a homegrown spreadsheet it should be easy to do (but not as easy as just submitting to the PYS in the first place) - if your results are calculated on the back of fag packet then its not so easy ![]() The two datasets are analysed jointly and separately by the RYA. Last year for the first time the PYS data was bigger than the excel return. The long term ambition should be for the PYS to take over completely as the mechanism for recording performance which can then be used both for a club's local analysis and the national analysis. Please try to encourage whoever drew the short straw at your club to do the PY return via the PYS - give them my email if they have any questions. Mark |
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tgruitt ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Dec 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2479 |
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OK, they use sailwave. I will get the info sent, do you just email them the sailwave docs? I don't think anyone does a return, so I might have to step up to the mark here....
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Needs to sail more...
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3004 |
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But how is it meaningful to submit PY data for a class at a club, without relating it to all the other PY's in that club. HISC for instance will send you a calclated number of say 920 for the RS400, which sounds like it performs well. But as everything it races against is also on a reduced number, it actually tells you very little. I predict that the Merlin and RS400 will have similar changes in the spring as they did this year, because the data will be munged with the same inputs from clubs who rebase things.
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